Ma’am, your psyche is showing
Apr. 3rd, 2009 08:23 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
isaacsapphireI don’t even know if saying this ‘out loud’ is a good idea, but it’s really getting to me and I know it’s going to leak out if I don’t let it out. So… a response to the response to 4.18, which was itself a response to the response to the show. And ‘response’ doesn’t even look like a word anymore.
I was a bit surprised at the insulted tone that many fans have taken over the mentions and representations of fandom, fangirls, and slash in 4.18. Now, this isn’t exactly an empirical way of judging, but I didn’t see anything insulting at all, rather the opposite actually.
I’m seeing some people who feel the representation of fans was highly insulting, bla bla bla. I’ve read several fanfics that covered the same ground (Winchesters discover a story based on them, complete with fans and slash.) and the episode was far kinder than any of them. The show was nicer to us than we are to ourselves. The show was pretty much, “Huh, that’s weird.” whereas the fics have been more like, “Brain bleach! Now!”
I theorize that the negative interpretation of the representation of fans in 4.18 is not related so much to the text, but rather to the viewer. This episode holds up a mirror and presents some ink blots. If you see something you don’t like, maybe it’s you.
I think this episode has forced fans to look at themselves more objectively. It didn’t even do it that hard by my opinion, but certainly harder than shows normally do. Some of them don’t like what they see. I think this has more to do with the fan’s internal conflict than the show. People compartmentalize their lives, separating different aspects and functions of themselves. Say, work-self and church-self and seeing-grandma-self. And for fans, fan-self.
Strangely, when the work itself broke the fourth wall, apparently that fan-self was threatened with collision with more public selfs. Alternatively, the more public selfs were forced to look at and acknowledge the fan-self.
There’s knowing and then there’s knowing. It’s possible to know something without knowing you know it. For lack of a better example; some people have always known that they are attracted to their own sex, but only become aware that they are gay at a certain, specific point in time. It’s not that they didn’t know before, but they didn’t know-know. It hadn’t gotten through to the top layer of the brain or something.
I think layers of knowing applies to this situation more directly too. It’s no secret that the show watches the watchers closely. They say it on the first season DVD commentary (US DVD, as someone with a UK one pointed out). They say it at conventions. Repeatedly. People thought it was neat when possible references to fanworks, such as Sam’s fear of Ronald McDonald or someone falling in pie were made, but these things were more vague. Deniable. Maybe she does, maybe she doesn’t, but wouldn’t it be cool if she does? But I’m thinking that maybe the uncertainty factor was important there. The ‘maybe’ was needed to keep the more central self from going, “OMG! Someone saw me with my psyche showing!” There’s this idea of fandom as a closed community, of just “us” but that’s just not true. It was once, but that was in my mother’s era, back when it was mailing lists, Xerox was the preferred method of copyright violation and fanfic distribution, and Kirk/Spock was the OTP.
There were debates back then as to whether to allow the creators to know about slash or fanfic. The conclusion seems to have been that it was better not to rub their faces in it. But even back then, the idea that the show itself might be aware of fanfic and slash freaked fans out badly.
Those days are over though. With the rise of the internet came the rise of a new era of fanfiction and slash, one where twelve year olds became part of the production and consumption. One where anyone with a PC and a modem could wander in. And fans realized that ‘outsiders’ could see, but apparently that wasn’t such an issue, at least not to all the new people who came in looking for more Harry Potter.
Subconsciously, fans must be aware that they can be seen by outsiders. But the possibility that someone who’s not one of the girls seeing your gay incestuous spanking fic or whatever didn’t seem to be one too many people dwelled on. Sure, people have spare accounts for slash because their RL friends and family are aware of some of their internet names. But it was on a personal level; I don’t want my grandma to know.
But there’s also the issue of the broader scale; Do people in general know? (eg. everyone else’s grandma) Again, subconsciously, people must be aware that it’s a real possibility at the very least. But they didn’t think about it much, with a few exceptions that were usually triggered by outside action. (eg. locked snarry communities in response to livejournal strikethrough.)
Your mom-self doesn’t approve of what your fan-self is doing, for example, but you ignore this dichotomy. There’s a term for holding two contradictory positions simultaneously, but I can’t remember what it is at the moment. That’s what’s going on here though. And yes, it hurts to be forced to confront these issues. Trust me, I know.
On further consideration though, I’m not surprised. The fan-self is often a much less guarded, much more transparent self then would be safe or healthy to have in public. The fan-self is often a grand demonstration of all the weirdest, most twisted, perverted, and inappropriate things in a person. No surprise that people don’t want the world to know about this. The very nature of fanfiction is questionable legally and the content often includes things that are illegal in at least some places, or ridding the ragged edge of legal, forget about socially acceptable.
I’ll admit, I feel conflicted about my own fan-ness. I’m not happy when one of my friends sits down at the lunch table and announces, “[My name] likes to read and write stories about brothers boinking.” My family vaguely knows that I write fanfiction, as do my friends. I mean, I have to attack someone with my stuff in person. The porn is more discrete though, mostly because my friends aren’t into slash/yaoi.
On further consideration, I think that part of the reason this fourth wall breaking doesn’t bug me is that I started with yaoi, not slash. Yaoi is based on anime and manga. In manga, characters breaking the fourth wall and talking directly with the audience, yes, even about slash (in non-yaoi books) is not uncommon. In Western works this is rare enough to be worth mentioning when it occurs, but it’s practically endemic in manga. I can rattle off examples of fourth wall breaking in Western works, but I can’t for manga because it happens so much there.
In conclusion... I don’t have a conclusion. If I did, it would be something about fans and psychology and self and stuff. Hey, make up your own conclusion and write it below :)
I was a bit surprised at the insulted tone that many fans have taken over the mentions and representations of fandom, fangirls, and slash in 4.18. Now, this isn’t exactly an empirical way of judging, but I didn’t see anything insulting at all, rather the opposite actually.
I’m seeing some people who feel the representation of fans was highly insulting, bla bla bla. I’ve read several fanfics that covered the same ground (Winchesters discover a story based on them, complete with fans and slash.) and the episode was far kinder than any of them. The show was nicer to us than we are to ourselves. The show was pretty much, “Huh, that’s weird.” whereas the fics have been more like, “Brain bleach! Now!”
I theorize that the negative interpretation of the representation of fans in 4.18 is not related so much to the text, but rather to the viewer. This episode holds up a mirror and presents some ink blots. If you see something you don’t like, maybe it’s you.
I think this episode has forced fans to look at themselves more objectively. It didn’t even do it that hard by my opinion, but certainly harder than shows normally do. Some of them don’t like what they see. I think this has more to do with the fan’s internal conflict than the show. People compartmentalize their lives, separating different aspects and functions of themselves. Say, work-self and church-self and seeing-grandma-self. And for fans, fan-self.
Strangely, when the work itself broke the fourth wall, apparently that fan-self was threatened with collision with more public selfs. Alternatively, the more public selfs were forced to look at and acknowledge the fan-self.
There’s knowing and then there’s knowing. It’s possible to know something without knowing you know it. For lack of a better example; some people have always known that they are attracted to their own sex, but only become aware that they are gay at a certain, specific point in time. It’s not that they didn’t know before, but they didn’t know-know. It hadn’t gotten through to the top layer of the brain or something.
I think layers of knowing applies to this situation more directly too. It’s no secret that the show watches the watchers closely. They say it on the first season DVD commentary (US DVD, as someone with a UK one pointed out). They say it at conventions. Repeatedly. People thought it was neat when possible references to fanworks, such as Sam’s fear of Ronald McDonald or someone falling in pie were made, but these things were more vague. Deniable. Maybe she does, maybe she doesn’t, but wouldn’t it be cool if she does? But I’m thinking that maybe the uncertainty factor was important there. The ‘maybe’ was needed to keep the more central self from going, “OMG! Someone saw me with my psyche showing!” There’s this idea of fandom as a closed community, of just “us” but that’s just not true. It was once, but that was in my mother’s era, back when it was mailing lists, Xerox was the preferred method of copyright violation and fanfic distribution, and Kirk/Spock was the OTP.
There were debates back then as to whether to allow the creators to know about slash or fanfic. The conclusion seems to have been that it was better not to rub their faces in it. But even back then, the idea that the show itself might be aware of fanfic and slash freaked fans out badly.
Those days are over though. With the rise of the internet came the rise of a new era of fanfiction and slash, one where twelve year olds became part of the production and consumption. One where anyone with a PC and a modem could wander in. And fans realized that ‘outsiders’ could see, but apparently that wasn’t such an issue, at least not to all the new people who came in looking for more Harry Potter.
Subconsciously, fans must be aware that they can be seen by outsiders. But the possibility that someone who’s not one of the girls seeing your gay incestuous spanking fic or whatever didn’t seem to be one too many people dwelled on. Sure, people have spare accounts for slash because their RL friends and family are aware of some of their internet names. But it was on a personal level; I don’t want my grandma to know.
But there’s also the issue of the broader scale; Do people in general know? (eg. everyone else’s grandma) Again, subconsciously, people must be aware that it’s a real possibility at the very least. But they didn’t think about it much, with a few exceptions that were usually triggered by outside action. (eg. locked snarry communities in response to livejournal strikethrough.)
Your mom-self doesn’t approve of what your fan-self is doing, for example, but you ignore this dichotomy. There’s a term for holding two contradictory positions simultaneously, but I can’t remember what it is at the moment. That’s what’s going on here though. And yes, it hurts to be forced to confront these issues. Trust me, I know.
On further consideration though, I’m not surprised. The fan-self is often a much less guarded, much more transparent self then would be safe or healthy to have in public. The fan-self is often a grand demonstration of all the weirdest, most twisted, perverted, and inappropriate things in a person. No surprise that people don’t want the world to know about this. The very nature of fanfiction is questionable legally and the content often includes things that are illegal in at least some places, or ridding the ragged edge of legal, forget about socially acceptable.
I’ll admit, I feel conflicted about my own fan-ness. I’m not happy when one of my friends sits down at the lunch table and announces, “[My name] likes to read and write stories about brothers boinking.” My family vaguely knows that I write fanfiction, as do my friends. I mean, I have to attack someone with my stuff in person. The porn is more discrete though, mostly because my friends aren’t into slash/yaoi.
On further consideration, I think that part of the reason this fourth wall breaking doesn’t bug me is that I started with yaoi, not slash. Yaoi is based on anime and manga. In manga, characters breaking the fourth wall and talking directly with the audience, yes, even about slash (in non-yaoi books) is not uncommon. In Western works this is rare enough to be worth mentioning when it occurs, but it’s practically endemic in manga. I can rattle off examples of fourth wall breaking in Western works, but I can’t for manga because it happens so much there.
In conclusion... I don’t have a conclusion. If I did, it would be something about fans and psychology and self and stuff. Hey, make up your own conclusion and write it below :)
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no subject
Date: 2009-04-26 02:31 am (UTC)After I discovered the Sam/Dean ship and kind of went "Um okay, no squicky feelings AT ALL about the brothercest, Britt?" and then I kind of thought back and I think I have always been drawn to incestuous relationships growing up. I was a HUGE fan of Flowers in the Attic and pretty much all of V.C. Andrews work. Taking a look at here writing as whole, not just FitA, actually a huge amount of her books have incesty stuff woven into them.
Plus I was a huge fan of the movie Dune, so when Children of Dune was created on the Sci-fi channel I fell IN LOVE with Leto and Ghanima. They were extremely close twin brother and sister and I sat through that whole miniseries wanting them to be together. I swear to GOD they almost kissed at the end, but I guess the Sci-Fi channel wouldn't go there *grumbles* but anyway.....
Yeah, I guess it was just a matter of destiny that had my discovering Sam/Dean because I pretty much was all set to love it even before I found it.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-26 08:31 am (UTC)Before I moved into fandom, the dirtiestwrongest thing I'd written (at least that was intended for anyone else to read) had explicit sister/brother desire as a major motivation. And there was the little personal porn universe of two brothers and two sisters who "desired only each other." Actually, I think my *first* personal porn universe was sister/brother slash (shapechangers are awesome for porn).
So yeah, I joined this fandom because I LOVE broslash; it's not a problem in the slightest for me.
Also, the main pair of RL guys that I always use as writing inspiration are brothers... although they would probably disembowel me if they knew. There are some things good Marines don't do, especially with their brothers.